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"Ester-C" still learning

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"Ester-C" still learning

Posted by
Abe F. [4815.2450] on March 31, 2006 at 12:23:47:

Dear Dr. Stoll and friends,

Please bear with me as I read more of the archives here practically every day, and am still overwhelmed by the learning curve.

I have been taking 4-6 grams of Ester-C (calcium ascorbate) per day for many months now.

I thought that this was the "esterified" vitamin C that Dr. Stoll recommends in his book. Once I even took 12 grams for several days in a row due to a cold, as per the advice in the book.

Now, upon reading the archives, I realize that the "esterified" vitamin C that Dr. Stoll recommends and the "ester-C" I take are not the same thing?

Can someone please clarify or at least verify this?

Also, could I have gotten any of the same benefits taking what I was? Were the doses Dr. Stoll recommends for real esterified C unjustifiably high for what I was taking?

Thanks for reading,
Abe




Re: "Ester-C" still learning

Posted by Fork in the Road [358.1351] on March 31, 2006 at 13:28:18:

In Reply to: "Ester-C" still learning posted by Abe F. [4815.2450] on March 31, 2006 at 12:23:47:

I'm interested in the responses you receive. I've taken Natrol brand that say's Ester-C 500 mg, and the ingredients say: Vitamine C (as Calcium Ascorbate). I assumed I was taking the right kind of C! Ester-C... wait, now I'm really confused, and don't have time to dive into the archives.

Fork


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Re: "Ester-C" still learning

Posted by labrat [1119.74] on March 31, 2006 at 16:06:45:

In Reply to: "Ester-C" still learning posted by Abe F. [4815.2450] on March 31, 2006 at 12:23:47:

Not sure where you got that idea - some people have been confused in the past, but my understanding is that they ARE the same thing.

"Ester" is simply short for "Esterified"

~~~8>



Re: "Ester-C" still learning

Posted by Jan S. [3524.19] on March 31, 2006 at 17:59:45:

In Reply to: Re: "Ester-C" still learning posted by labrat [1119.74] on March 31, 2006 at 16:06:45:

True, they are the same thing but "esterified" is a misnomer. The way I hear the story, when Natrol developed the product they thought the C was esterified. (An ester is a molecular combination of an alcohol and an acid.) Later they found out it wasn't and couldn't be. So they dropped the claim that it was esterified but retained the trademark "Ester-C".

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Re: "Ester-C" still learning

Posted by PhillipC [1538.1837] on April 01, 2006 at 10:32:24:

In Reply to: "Ester-C" still learning posted by Abe F. [4815.2450] on March 31, 2006 at 12:23:47:

Actually they are not the same. What you want is ASCORBYL PALMITATE.
I don't believe any manufacturer would think they have an ester when all they have is a salt (calcium ascorbate). They're just trying to confuse the public with the name Ester-C.
I think we should just the drop the words "Ester-C" or "esterified C" on this board completely to avoid this confusion and refer to it as ascorbyl palmitate (even though the molecule is an ester).
Just buy ascorbyl palmitate from brands like NOW foods, then there is no need to read ingredients, etc.
Hope this clears it up.




Re: "Ester-C" still learning

Posted by skippy [568.1351] on April 02, 2006 at 23:05:46:

In Reply to: "Ester-C" still learning posted by Abe F. [4815.2450] on March 31, 2006 at 12:23:47:

I'm STILL confused too Fork! I asked Walt about this once and he didn't know the chemical name but he said Calcium Ascorbate was NOT estherfied C. BUT everyone I talk to including the Health Food store and a Compounding Pharmacist say that Calcium Ascorbate IS Esther C! He also said it is a lot of marketing hype. BUT, I guess now I'll look for what Philip called it... Palmitate, I think.

Walt said he gets his from Olympian Labs I believe..................

skippy

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Re: "Ester-C" still learning

Posted by PeterB [1975.23] on April 04, 2006 at 20:07:16:

In Reply to: Re: "Ester-C" still learning posted by PhillipC [1538.1837] on April 01, 2006 at 10:32:24:

I agree with the other poster that relying on the proper chemical name should avoid any mix up. Personally, I use ascorbic acid mixed with hesperidin (as Szent-Gyorgyi, the scientist who isolated vitamin C, suggested.) I'm not convinced that ascorbyl palmitate is functionally superior to ascorbate, though it may have a longer half life in the body. Regular ascorbic acid should do about as well for a fraction of the cost.

PeterB



Re: "Ester-C" still learning (WHAT I USE)

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on April 05, 2006 at 07:13:16:

In Reply to: Re: "Ester-C" still learning posted by PeterB [1975.23] on April 04, 2006 at 20:07:16:

Thanks, PeterB.

Next time you are in your healthfood store, look at the lable of Ester-C by Olympian Labs Incorporated for the 1000 milligram sized tablets.

Let us know what you learn.

Walt



Re: "Ester-C" still learning (WHAT I USE)

Posted by PhillipC [1538.1837] on April 05, 2006 at 14:45:47:

In Reply to: Re: "Ester-C" still learning (WHAT I USE) posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on April 05, 2006 at 07:13:16:

Dr. Stoll,

I think you're contributing to the confusion somewhat because you may be unclear yourself.
Do you want everyone to take vitamin c in the form of an ester molecule which is more fat soluble and supposedly absorbed easier into cell membranes? Then you should clearly recommend ascorbyl palmitate.
If you want everyone to take calcium ascorbate (which I don't think you do), then recommend an "Ester-C" trademark brand. The Ester-C Olympian brand you're taking is calcium ascorbate.
Olympian does sell ascorbyl palmitate but it is marked only as ascorbyl palmitate on the label.
Hope this helps.

Phillip



Re: "Ester-C" still learning (WHAT I USE)

Posted by PeterB [1975.23] on April 05, 2006 at 20:49:51:

In Reply to: Re: "Ester-C" still learning (WHAT I USE) posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on April 05, 2006 at 07:13:16:

Hi Walt, I realize that Olympia's calcium threonate product is supposedly more bioavailable, however all of the larger human studies with supplemental vitamin C are based on use of ascorbic acid -- the form identical to that which animals produce in their livers. The health outcomes in those studies have been remarkable, and I haven't seen one that utilized threonine metabolites. I take other factors into consideration in my preference for ascorbic acid. For one, Dr. Robert Cathcart (whose assistant, at least, I was able to interview) uses only the naturally-occuring forms in his clinical practice and says ascorbic acid works better (orally) than other forms, including mineral ascorbates. Dr. Cathcart does not use EsterC, however his assistant wasn't able to explain exactly why. I am not strictly opposed to manufactured nutrients that aren't a perfect analog to naturally occuring ones (such as synthetic B vitamins or insulin which are effective in emergency care), but I see no reason to prefer them under normal conditions. My other reason for continuing to use ascorbate is that it has been proven effective in lowering blood pressure in a study of patients, and it has lowered mine.

PeterB

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Re: "Ester-C" still learning (WHAT I USE) Archive.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on April 06, 2006 at 08:08:00:

In Reply to: Re: "Ester-C" still learning (WHAT I USE) posted by PhillipC [1538.1837] on April 05, 2006 at 14:45:47:

Thanks, PhillipC.

I think you are right. I never bothered to learn the exact structure of Ester C since it was the only patentable form of this vitamin. The molecule it is attached to (ascorbate, palmitate, etc.) is not the patentable molecule &, as far as I know, makes no difference in it's effective characteristics.



Re: "Ester-C" still learning (WHAT I USE) Archive.

Posted by
Abe F. [4815.2450] on April 06, 2006 at 13:46:31:

In Reply to: Re: "Ester-C" still learning (WHAT I USE) Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on April 06, 2006 at 08:08:00:

Thanks, Dr. Stoll.

However, I am now more confused than ever regarding this subject. Can you please give me a brief explanation in layman's terms regarding this situation?

To clarify --
1. The esterified C you recommend in your book, are you saying that it doesn't matter if it is Ascorbyl Palmitate or Calcium Ascorbate?

2. You say to take at least 4 grams during flu season, and 6 for people with arthritis. How about not during flu season, and no arthritis?

I am pretty sure you said in a post awhile back that "ester-c" (calcium ascorbate) is not true esterified vitamin c, although I could be wrong as I am so confused.

Sorry for dragging this one out,
Your friend Abe



Re: "Ester-C" still learning (WHAT I USE) Archive.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on April 07, 2006 at 07:10:40:

In Reply to: Re: "Ester-C" still learning (WHAT I USE) Archive. posted by Abe F. [4815.2450] on April 06, 2006 at 13:46:31:

Hi, Abe.

The "ester" part of the molecule is what gives it it's unique properties. That means what ever other stuff it is wedded to makes little difference. In order:
1. Yes, that is what I am saying.
2. This is just an average recommendation since individual peoples' requirements vary. Once you get in the "ball park" individual experimentation is the best way to determine one's own dosage.


Hope this helps.

Walt



Re: "Ester-C" still learning (WHAT I USE) Archive.

Posted by PhillipC [1538.1837] on April 07, 2006 at 17:23:03:

In Reply to: Re: "Ester-C" still learning (WHAT I USE) Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on April 07, 2006 at 07:10:40:

Dr. Stoll,

It still seems as though you are not correct in your thinking or advice on this. I also really hate dragging this on. I am going to start a new thread that will hopefully explain or eliminate ALL of this confusion.

Phillip

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Re: "Ester-C" still learning (WHAT I USE) Archive.

Posted by
Abe F. [4815.2450] on April 08, 2006 at 00:20:55:

In Reply to: Re: "Ester-C" still learning (WHAT I USE) Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.1889] on April 07, 2006 at 07:10:40:

Thanks so much, Dr. Stoll.

Abe

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