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Hi Dr. Stoll:
I am absorbing more information about arthritis from your book.
I just want to see what you think of this positive experience I am having.
I am 5'9" tall and WAS overweight maybe 2 years ago. As I began to change my lifestyle and improve my diet my body did the most wonderful thing. It found it's perfect. ideal weight. It seems like I can feel a level (like the one carpenters use) inside that naturally found 130 pounds (my weight now) without me trying and a side benefit of applying
good habits.
Now I am doing SR several times a day naturally. My entire body rests. sleeps and relaxing to such a deep level without me doing anything at all. And when I wake up I can feel my body healing and it is.
My posture is better, pain has diminished. I feel the best I have in years. Plus..this is my question "am I experiencing my body healing itself because I changed my lifestyle.?"
I eat better, smaller portions more often now and lots of good water.
I heard a DO say the other say that RA was originally like gangreen and that RA comes from constipation. When my bowels are regular, the pain goes away as I have had constipation often. What do you think of that. I like your statement that regular docs don't have a cure.
It makes me feel so good to continue to be in control.
Thanks for your time.
lovebird
In Reply to: For Dr. Stoll-an exciting side-benefit posted by lovebird [20.15] on July 05, 2004 at 23:35:46:
Congratulations, Lovebird!
Keep on keeping on. These are typical results from what you have been doing. There has never been a problem with wellness working, only in getting people to do it.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll-an exciting side-benefit TESTIMONIAL (wellness) posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on July 06, 2004 at 07:20:37:
I have to chime in on this one.
It isn't like I didn't do it, as you put it. I did but felt worse.
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll-an exciting side-benefit TESTIMONIAL (wellness) posted by Steven [280.62] on July 06, 2004 at 13:06:41:
Thanks, Steven.
How well did you do it? For example, did you check the validity of your SR with biofeedback?
Walt
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll-an exciting side-benefit TESTIMONIAL (wellness) posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on July 07, 2004 at 07:08:51:
Didn't get a chance to. The panic attacks started with them and stayed with me after I stopped. (The panic symptoms have lessened though). I searched everywhere around me for a therapist who would have some clue as to what to do to help me and they knew nothing.
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll-an exciting side-benefit TESTIMONIAL (wellness) posted by Steven [280.62] on July 06, 2004 at 13:06:41:
Hi Steven,
I've followed your posts here for quite a while, and can't help but think that even worse than giving up, you're trying to "turn" others away from the wellness path by "chiming in" every chance you get. I can understand your frustration; most of us have worked hard and tried many things before finding what works for us -- and it's definitely not set in stone -- maintenance and adjustments are always necessary. I hope you'll find what works for you (because it really DOES work and makes a world of difference in overall health and wellbeing), and please stop discouraging others from trying SR.
Be well,
Donna
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll-an exciting side-benefit TESTIMONIAL (wellness) posted by DonnaW [302.1268] on July 07, 2004 at 11:51:53:
I have NEVER said "don't do SR". Not even once.
But I am going to put my experience (and I have read studies and instances where it does happen) out there whenever I hear someone say "try wellness, it has NO SIDE EFFECTS" b/c that is a very dangerous statement. Also, referring to it as a cure. That's the statement that caught me. People should know about it. Regular medical treatments and thoughs get knocked here all the time, yet you ask me? Geez.
It would be like a website that pushed drinking something saying it's a "CURE with no side effects" and when you do it, you not only don't get better but vomit continuously.
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll-an exciting side-benefit TESTIMONIAL (wellness) posted by Steven [280.62] on July 07, 2004 at 10:35:49:
I have also read that for some sensitive people some forms of SR, particularly those brainsync ones, can cause anxiety attacks.
So warnings should be given!
Maz
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll-an exciting side-benefit TESTIMONIAL (wellness) posted by Maz [1200.624] on July 08, 2004 at 03:33:27:
Maz,
Bah! Humbug! Disinformation is everywhere. I have repeatedly warned that just doing SR, without checking it with biofeedback, runs the serious risk of wasting your time for at least months.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll-an exciting side-benefit TESTIMONIAL (wellness) posted by DonnaW [302.1268] on July 07, 2004 at 11:51:53:
Thanks, Donna.
Perhaps you have exposed an "antiSRtite" :o).
Walt
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll-an exciting side-benefit TESTIMONIAL (wellness) posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on July 08, 2004 at 06:58:09:
Then how do you explain the panic symtoms and full blown attacks that I have never had in my life which suddenly showed up after I started SR?
Coincidence is not sufficient there.
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll-an exciting side-benefit TESTIMONIAL (wellness) posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on July 08, 2004 at 07:03:33:
Is this how it works? You suggest something and if it doesn't work for them and they don't agree with it, they become enemy number 1 or an "antiSRite?"
In Reply to: Re: Donna posted by Steven [280.62] on July 07, 2004 at 18:31:44:
Hi Steve,
You seem very angry and discouraged, but I just hope you keep trying to find something that works for you, like Donna said.
Actually, regular medical treatment does not get knocked here all the time. It's the medical treatment that is detrimental to one's well being that gets knocked here all the time. Dr. Stoll has many times mentioned that people need to ask their doctor about things or, in my dad's case, told me that conventional medicine has it's place.
Once you break free of this medical madness that not helping you (you in general, not you you) and in my case was harming me, you can start to see that you really have to become educated about yourself, your body, your mind, and your spirit and become your own doctor.
You'll get there, just keep searching!
In Reply to: Re: Donna posted by Lorna [935.74] on July 08, 2004 at 17:37:16:
Right now, I am trying to get back to the point I was in before I started SR. My beef was that I have never discouraged anyone from doing SR or said don't do it. Yet I am accused of that and called an "antiSRite". It's childish.
I just share what happened to me so that info is out there.
Conventional medicine does get knocked many times from what I have seen. It's similar to a cult. They all get together and preach something and if you disagree with any part of something they say, you are like an outsider. I believe I remember reading something in Dr. Weil's book (I was in the bookstore and glanced in it) about a story of an alternative gathering that if it didn't work and you asked them about it, they would turn on you and say you weren't enlightened enough.
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll-an exciting side-benefit TESTIMONIAL (wellness) posted by Steven [280.62] on July 08, 2004 at 16:12:42:
Steven,
As you get older many systems that used to function well start showing cracks. If you have any better approach, I am all ears. In the meantime, the only tried and true way (known) to reverse what you have been discussing is the proper practice of SR.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll-an exciting side-benefit TESTIMONIAL (wellness) posted by Steven [280.62] on July 08, 2004 at 16:13:24:
Ask, Kramer or Seinfeld. Do you have no sense of humor at all? Perhaps you could start there.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll-an exciting side-benefit TESTIMONIAL (wellness) posted by Steven [280.62] on July 08, 2004 at 16:13:24:
Hi Steven:
Dr. Stoll was referring to the Seinfeld show where Kramer accused Jerry of being an "anti-dentite" because Jerry didn't consider dentists serious doctors.
I'm sure "AntiSRite" is supposed to be a humorous label. It's meant to make you smile. It's not meant to cause you stress:-)
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll-an exciting side-benefit TESTIMONIAL (wellness) posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on July 09, 2004 at 06:59:35:
Walt,
You can keep repeating it but the fact is that I DID do it for months and I am still trying to recover. What about those who suffer anxiety from SR? There are studies out there on it. It's happened to me as what i feel now, I started feeling towards autogenics.
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll-an exciting side-benefit TESTIMONIAL (wellness) posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on July 09, 2004 at 07:01:15:
I didn't watch too much Seinfeld but some. I'm more into Curb Your Enthusiasm.
Yes I have a sense of humor. I laugh about a lot of things but I try to take health issues seriously. See post below.
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll-an exciting side-benefit TESTIMONIAL (wellness) posted by Maz [1200.624] on July 08, 2004 at 03:33:27:
So have I Maz, and I also speak from experience in it happening to me.
But as you can see from Walt's reaction, those who preach it will never believe it.
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll-an exciting side-benefit TESTIMONIAL (wellness) posted by Steven [280.62] on July 09, 2004 at 10:44:09:
I was looking through posts and wringing out my memory but I can't find your information on how you verified your SR (that is, how you had it tested). Did you do biofeedback?
If you have stopped SR and still experience anxiety then it seems more than feasible that SR has nothing to do with your problems.
Even in trials for new medicines some of the side effects legally required to be listed are not applicable to the substance; they would have happened anyway. This is most likely what happened with you.
As for "What about those who suffer anxiety from SR? There are studies out there on it", refer to my above comment. The anxiety is not caused by the SR, it is caused by something you became more open to feeling through whatever level of relaxation you reached. Perhaps you desperately need to work through some issues.
Walt has often said that what a person needs to do the most is the thing that they'll be the least likely to do. I think you are kidding yourself with this excuse. I would like to know what you are doing about your anxiety besides blaming it on SR at every opportunity.
In Reply to: Re: Steven... posted by June.one [870.4] on July 09, 2004 at 14:06:01:
I love how defensive everyone here gets. WOW.
What happened to me happened during SR sessions. The overheated panic feelings were making me anxious. Now, I am anxious after I stopped.
Do you really want to defend SR that much that you can ignore the facts? I mean people are jumping into this thread who didn't say a word when I was going through it. But once I question anything about SR, people hop who are now "experts".
It's almost like a cult atmosphere. I have been been accused of telling people NOT to do SR which I have never said, not even one time. But that doesn't stop someone from accusing me of it.
On a panic website, which I mentioned what was happening to me, some of the people told me to be careful because if you try something alternative and it doesn't work for you and you say it, the people get all defensive and start attacking/blaming. Boy, I should have listened to him.
In Reply to: Re: June,one posted by Steven [280.62] on July 09, 2004 at 15:11:30:
I wasn't the the least defensive. And you were the one who fiercely jumped into the thread where Walt was discussing with lovebird the benefits of this path towards wellness. Aren't you the one who's always behaving defensively about the effects of SR, ready to spread your gospel about how harmful it was for you, cautioning others to be careful? Often when SR is discussed you are right there with your little anxiety story. I'm starting to wonder if you aren't crouched by your computer ready to spring on any civil and positive discussion of the benefits of SR.
I don't think you've questioned SR enough. Perhaps you could stop being defensive long enough to try to get to the root of your anxiety. I still contend anxiety likely would have been an issue with or without your SR experience. I never joined in your SR reindeer games before, it is true. Others covered anything I could have contributed in their responses when you were "going through it". As long as you keep repeating yourself over and over and over again about how SR gave you panic and anxiety, others are probably going to question you. If you so believe that SR caused this problem just don't do it, don't harp on it anymore and none of us others will feel any inclination to try to help you deal with your problems - oh, I mean "attack" you - any more about it.
In Reply to: Re: Steven posted by June.one [870.4] on July 09, 2004 at 16:20:17:
I fully expect another "sheep" to jump in this thread as well as it always happens. You said I "fiercely jumped into the thread"
This is all I said:
"I have to chime in on this one. It isn't like I didn't do it, as you put it. I did but felt worse."
Wow the pain of how harsh that statement was lol. If you think that is "fierce", there is nothing more I can say.
In terms of crouching at the computer, you are exageratting. I can possibly count my post count on both hands in the last couple of weeks. Where were you when I posted a tanning bed question to have people hopping in on it to preach? Tons of fighting went on in there.
Cmon.
In Reply to: Re: June.one posted by Steven [280.62] on July 09, 2004 at 19:58:57:
You have interjected on more than one occasion your panic/anxiety problem which began with SR during other discussions about SR. It appears that you are more focused on laying the blame on SR for this during threads recommending SR than you are about dealing with any health problem or mental issue. It leaves me with the impression this blame of SR matters to you more than understanding and conquering the panic/anxiety. I wonder if you feel a need to blame SR for your problem because of some bitterness rather than working on stuff (transference). If SR was the culprit in the panic/anxiety problem I fail to understand why SR would still be to blame for panic and/or anxiety NOW.
By fierce I meant "with conviction", not as with agression or anything like that. I want to challenge you to consider other causes for the anxiety/panic thing - not defiantly, Steven, but because I think the best part of this forum is encouraging people to find answers, to open their minds a little more, to try different things. Why are you so willing to accept that SR "caused" this reaction in the sense of an adverse effect? Isn't it possible that SR could have freed an obstacle in your mental process which you could work on to not only rid yourself of anxiety but that might allow you the ability to acheive personal growth? You may be in a unique situation from which you could gain understanding that might help many others.
BTW, I read the tanning bed thread but enough others said what I would have at that point. I read many things with interest on this board but am not inclined to jump on every thread. In this thread Walt is archiving lovebird's progress report. I'd been thinking of what happened with your SR and have even read a couple of journal articles on the web about what you describe, and I'd gotten to thinking about what's up with this anxiety thing. I just think there's more to it; we still know very little about the mind compared to what we don't know and my inclination was to wonder if SR opened up the kinds of things we (that is "we" as inquisitive people) need to work on.
Many things have made me feel worse before they made me feel better. I sought to understand what was going on and found out some things. A simple example was Ester-C causing diarrhea. I learned the vitamin didn't cause my diarrhea; it was the improper DOSAGE of that vitamin that did. Hope my analogy makes sense.
In Reply to: Re: Steven posted by June.one [870.4] on July 09, 2004 at 20:42:42:
Remember that you fiercly jumped in yourself.
I have gained some info on possibilities of SR from my experience and as well as doing research.
Why shouldn't that info be out there? There are a zillion posts about SR. I have posted about this in about maybe 10 total?
I try to help my situation every day.
But when I posted what happened to me, I was met with negativity left and right. That cannot be denied.
The tanning bed question was very specific in the question and those who jumped in with "tanning beds are bad for you don't use them" didn't even respond to anything i asked. I am not a believer of everything being bad for you.
In Reply to: Re: June.one posted by Steven [280.62] on July 09, 2004 at 23:42:57:
I did jump in there, didn't I? So since I did:
1.)"I have gained some info on possibilities of SR from my experience and as well as doing research.
Why shouldn't that info be out there? There are a zillion posts about SR. I have posted about this in about maybe 10 total?"
-------------------
What info do you mean [independent of your opinion]?
2.) I'm glad you try to help your situation.
3.) When you posted your situation with SR (awhile back in your first post about the panic/anxiety it caused), Dr. Stoll admitted it happened but rarely. Furthermore he stated that in his experience it passed if one were to merely persist. That is encouragement, not negativity. I by no means deny there is negativity on this board, but most of the regulars try to be very helpful and encouraging, at least until the point they're too fed up with negative responses or tire of childish defensiveness. In this current thread I too was hoping to encourage you by suggesting the anxiety was perhaps a catalyst for you to work on problems that would be of potentially enormous benefit for you.
4. As mentioned, I did not participate in the tanning bed thread; The original purpose of the post was of no interest and the free-for-all which followed was counterproductive.
In my preliminary research of meditation-induced anxiety there was the suggestion that progressive relaxation is possibly most effective for patients experiencing this type of anxiety. Even if you opt not to make a regular practice of this, learning to relax those specific muscles is a great exercise and if your body is trained that way it is a stellar method to use when you feel tension in one particular part of your body.
Anyway, good luck with it all.
June
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll-an exciting side-benefit TESTIMONIAL (wellness) posted by PhillyLady [1906.913] on July 09, 2004 at 09:10:29:
Thanks, PhillyLady.
I had no idea the reference would be obscure.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll-an exciting side-benefit TESTIMONIAL (wellness) posted by Steven [280.62] on July 09, 2004 at 10:44:09:
Steven,
Until you have certified your SR with biofeedback there is nothing I can tell you. If the RR (relasation response) is not being accomplished then you have NOT "done it for months".
Walt
In Reply to: Re: June.one posted by June.one [870.4] on July 10, 2004 at 01:49:52:
1) What I am saying there are a zillion SR posts on this board. I have posted my experience in maybe 10 total ones. So being said I seem to be always jumping in is ridiculous.
3) After I got the "persist and it shall pass" line, I stayed with it for 2 more months. But the side effects were not just during the session, they started happening all the time after that. When I stopped, the panic symptoms decreased by about 90 percent but that 10 percent still is there and bothering me.
Regarding progressive relax., I used that for a couple of months at first and felt nothing. I was definitely not reaching any response as I felt like I was exercising and fully alert.
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll-an exciting side-benefit TESTIMONIAL (wellness) posted by Walt Stoll [9.8] on July 10, 2004 at 07:05:00:
Yes, we went through this awhile back. But how much $$$ is one to spend on biofeedback? I wouldn't do it myself b/c I would want to be sure. Am I to keep going to see if all the various techniques work?
Also, I read in the archives about prolotherapy. My chiro suggested it to me today for my shoulder pain (since surgery didn't clear up the instability). I am much better there but I want to weight train normally and have not done so for 3 years.
In Reply to: Re: For Dr. Stoll-an exciting side-benefit TESTIMONIAL (wellness) posted by Steven [280.62] on July 10, 2004 at 13:07:00:
Steven,
That ALSO is described in the SR and biofeedback archives.
Walt
In Reply to: Re: June.one posted by Steven [280.62] on July 10, 2004 at 13:04:51:
Steven, clearly I am not the only person who notices your joining in SR discussions with your warnings. If you want to base these warnings on your personal experience, though, you might gain a little credibility if you have your SR verified. If you think others will find what you have to say useful point out that it is an extremely rare adverse effect noted in a small percentage of patients with severe anxiety disorders and schizophrenia.
ALSO, base it on some facts and research. Here's something I read about - and this is interesting, Steven. Which general characteristic best describes you?
Certain conditions and situations may indicate a patient is not suited to practice meditation/relaxation techniques, at least not without experienced professional guidance. The concerns relate to persons having an impaired sense of reality, difficulty with ego boundaries, patients who lack empathy or those with rigid over-control tendencies.
Based on your proven need to have to "win" I'm putting money on the last one.
Steven, many people have tried to be helpful to you on this board but you seem to display a need to dispute whatever helpful advice is offered you. Sometimes instead of REacting to others it's a good thing to consider what you've heard and look honestly at what truth there may be in it or to maybe understand WHY you elicited that response from someone.
As for the "persist and it shall pass" part, it is the truth; however, first you would have to be acheiving the relaxation response.
If none of this works perhaps you can share the things you're doing that actually are helping you.
June
In Reply to: Re: Steven posted by June.one [870.4] on July 10, 2004 at 14:39:13:
If you want to talk about credibility, nothing on the net honestly has any. We are all sharing experience as people like to say. Therefore, mine should not be questioned either.
In Reply to: Re: June.one posted by Steven [280.62] on July 11, 2004 at 15:14:54:
That which is questioned is just whether you really did the SR properly - a verificationn with biofeedback is a way to lay that question to rest.
In an article I read regarding relaxation induced anxiety that extremely small group of the mental patients tested which distributed this tendency could still continue doing their relaxation routines with guiadance; their work on meditation, etc., was with assistance. They didn't just quit.
And what things are you doing that ARE working in helping your health? I was bummed you didn't share with us
June
In Reply to: Re: Steven posted by June.one [870.4] on July 12, 2004 at 01:04:52:
Once again, everything on here is questionable as it is the net. Look at SHAPE's protocol. He recommends his flushes but are you hopping all over him for proof? Even stuff that Dr. Stoll says are being taken at his word.
The studies you read only talk abot extreme cases. But there is other info out there as well. And unless you want to pay for the sessions, saying I should start SR against and get biofeedback to gain credibility is kind of silly. It's just another case of someone jumping on the defensive when it comes to SR. I have always said I am glad it works for some but NOT to assume it works for everyone.
If you had read my previous stuff, so I don't have to post it again, you would know that I spent months looking for "guidance" to find nothing. No one near me had any idea about relaxation techniques or problems with it.
Here'a another tidbit that I haven't said until now b/c of the defensiveness. My g/f used the GRJ protocol, per Dr. Stoll's suggestion, for what he said was globus hystericus/ Bought a juicer, did everything exactly right. Guess what? Didn't help AT ALL.
In Reply to: Re: June.one posted by Steven [280.62] on July 12, 2004 at 10:04:30:
But Steven, I was trying to inquire what things are working for you in improving your health. What have you found beneficial?
In Reply to: Re: Steven posted by June.one [870.4] on July 12, 2004 at 11:46:44:
The only thing I have done which has improved anything is when I stopped the SR, as my panic symtoms decreased, though still there.
Changing my diet like 8 years ago helped my IBS.
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