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Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.7756] on June 30, 2009 at 13:43:49:

Hello everyone,

The following is an article posted on Yahoo News this weekend.


Shifting America from sick care to genuine wellness

By Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa)

Washington, DC — With the Senate health committee convening daily to craft a comprehensive health reform bill, the basic outline of this landmark legislation is now clear.

Yes, it will ensure access to affordable, quality care for every American. But, just as important, it will hold down health care costs by creating a sharp new emphasis on disease prevention and public health.

As the lead Senator in drafting the Prevention and Public Health section of the bill, I view this legislation as our opportunity to recreate America as a genuine wellness society – a society that is focused on prevention, good nutrition, fitness, and public health.

The fact is, we currently do not have a health care system in the United States; we have a sick care system. If you’re sick, you get care, whether through insurance, Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP, community health centers, emergency rooms, or charity. The problem is that this is all about patching things up after people develop serious illnesses and chronic conditions.

We spend a staggering $2.3 trillion annually on health care – 16.5 percent of our GDP and far more than any other country spends on health care – yet the World Health Organization ranks U.S. health care only 37th among nations, on par with Serbia.

We spend twice as much per capita on health care as European countries, but we are twice as sick with chronic disease.

How can this be so? The problem is that we have systematically neglected wellness and disease prevention. Currently in the United States, 95 percent of every health care dollar is spent on treating illnesses and conditions after they occur. But we spend peanuts on prevention.

The good news in these dismal statistics is that, by reforming our system and focusing on fighting and preventing chronic disease, we have a huge opportunity. We can not only save hundreds of billions of dollars; we can also dramatically improve the health of the American people.

Consider this: Right now, some 75 percent of health care costs are accounted for by heart disease, diabetes, prostate cancer, breast cancer, and obesity. What these five diseases and conditions have in common is that they are largely preventable and even reversible by changes in nutrition, physical activity, and lifestyle.

Listen to what Dr. Dean Ornish told our Senate health committee: “Studies have shown that changing lifestyle could prevent at least 90 percent of all heart disease. Thus, the disease that accounts for more premature deaths and costs Americans more than any other illness is almost completely preventable, and even reversible, simply by changing lifestyle.”

It’s not enough to talk about how to extend insurance coverage and how to pay for health care – as important as those things are. It makes no sense just to figure out a better way to pay the bills for a system that is dysfunctional, ineffective, and broken. We also have to change the health care system itself, beginning with a sharp new emphasis on prevention and public health.

We also have to realize that wellness and prevention must be truly comprehensive. It is not only about what goes on in a doctor’s office. It encompasses workplace wellness programs, community-wide wellness programs, building bike paths and walking trails, getting junk food out of our schools, making school breakfasts and lunches more nutritious, increasing the amount of physical activity our children get, and so much more.

I am heartened by the fact that the major players in this endeavor – Democrats and Republicans alike – all “get it” when it comes to prevention and public health. We all agree that it must be at the heart of reform legislation.

As President Obama said in his speech to Congress earlier this year: “[It is time] to make the largest investment ever in preventive care, because that's one of the best ways to keep our people healthy and our costs under control.”

No question, comprehensive health reform is an extraordinarily ambitious undertaking. But what makes me optimistic is that all the major groups are playing a constructive role, including those that opposed the 1993-94 heath reform effort. Everyone agrees that the current system is broken.

Winston Churchill famously said that “Americans always do the right thing – after they’ve tried everything else.” Well, we’ve tried everything else, and it has led us to bad health and the brink of bankruptcy.

Comprehensive health reform legislation is our opportunity to change the paradigm. We are going to extend health insurance to every American. And we are going to give our citizens access to a 21st century health care system – one that is focused on helping us to live healthy, active, happy lives.

Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) is a senior member of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee and chairs the Senate panel that funds medical research and health care..

Op-Eds by contributors do not reflect the editorial views of the Yahoo! News staff.



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Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness

Posted by k. [2065.7727] on June 30, 2009 at 13:48:37:

In Reply to: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.7756] on June 30, 2009 at 13:43:49:

Thanks Jan. I heard him speak a little on the news the other day and I almost fainted, I just couldn't believe it.


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Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.7756] on June 30, 2009 at 14:37:19:

In Reply to: Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness posted by k. [2065.7727] on June 30, 2009 at 13:48:37:

Hi K,

Yes he's so clear, it's hard to believe. I'm glad some politicians out there are actually seeing things as they are, and thinking about what to do about it. What a welcome change.

Best wishes,
Jan


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Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness

Posted by Mike [8955.7738] on June 30, 2009 at 14:51:48:

In Reply to: Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.7756] on June 30, 2009 at 14:37:19:

wow...this is awesome! thanks for posting Jan. Gives us some hope at least for our future generations.


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Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness

Posted by k. [2065.7727] on June 30, 2009 at 16:51:40:

In Reply to: Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.7756] on June 30, 2009 at 14:37:19:

I know Jan, and I think the most helpful thing would be numbers. The more politicians and influential people that come on board to this way of thinking, the better, because the AMA and the like are so powerful.

In watching Obama try and craft a new health plan, he seems to be afraid of committing to a single payer system. I think part of that fear is due to the medical establishment. He met with them a short time back and they were pissed. Somebody has to stand up to these people already!


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Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness

Posted by Ron [5412.7650] on July 01, 2009 at 07:03:52:

In Reply to: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.7756] on June 30, 2009 at 13:43:49:

Hi Jan,

"Listen to what Dr. Dean Ornish told our Senate health committee: “Studies have shown that changing lifestyle could prevent at least 90 percent of all heart disease. Thus, the disease that accounts for more premature deaths and costs Americans more than any other illness is almost completely preventable, and even reversible, simply by changing lifestyle.” "
===================================

Do you have a link to what the good doctor means by "Lifestyle" ?

Is that code for "sexual practices"




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Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness Archive

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.7645] on July 01, 2009 at 09:00:53:

In Reply to: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.7756] on June 30, 2009 at 13:43:49:

Thanks, Jan!

Walt


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Reality Check

Posted by samm [1003.2765] on July 01, 2009 at 11:32:12:

In Reply to: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.7756] on June 30, 2009 at 13:43:49:

"disease prevention and public health"--
I'm sorry, but for 99% of our pols, regardless of party, this means garbage like vaccines.
When Edwards was running for Prez, he said he supported MANDATORY MAMMOGRAMS!!

The establishment, Dems,Reps, Inds,or Doctors don't have a clue what prevention is about.



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Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness

Posted by PhillyLady [13023.7761] on July 01, 2009 at 11:38:03:

In Reply to: Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness posted by Ron [5412.7650] on July 01, 2009 at 07:03:52:

Ron:

"Lifestyle" would include diet, smoking, drinking, drugs, weight, and any other lifestyle habits that make an impact on health.


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Re: Reality Check

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.7756] on July 02, 2009 at 00:07:25:

In Reply to: Reality Check posted by samm [1003.2765] on July 01, 2009 at 11:32:12:

Hi Samm,

I know what you're talking about, I've heard it too. But if he's listening to Dean Ornish, I think that is different. Ornish promotes a healthy lifestyle.

Best wishes,
Jan


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Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.7756] on July 02, 2009 at 00:10:24:

In Reply to: Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness posted by PhillyLady [13023.7761] on July 01, 2009 at 11:38:03:

Right on, Philly.

And things like professional massage, relaxation techniques, etc.

I did my massage internship in a program that modeled itself after Dean Ornish's recommendations.

Best wishes,
Jan


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Re: Reality Check

Posted by samm [1003.2765] on July 02, 2009 at 09:36:06:

In Reply to: Re: Reality Check posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.7756] on July 02, 2009 at 00:07:25:

Ornish is great, but, unless they appoint him health czar, he won't be making much difference on national health care.

The school lunch/breakfast programs, supported by federal dollars, are still serving poptarts and pancakes on a stick. It's an entrenched cluelessness.


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Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness

Posted by Ron [3468.7650] on July 02, 2009 at 10:03:59:

In Reply to: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.7756] on June 30, 2009 at 13:43:49:

Hi Jan,

Could the high cost of medical care be due to
the technology that is used to treat people who
would normally be allowed to die in other "less civilized" countries?
The US may be lacking in Engineers to build things,
but there is no shortage of medical research
and innovative medicines being created.

as an example:
How many average working people in Serbia spend a couple of years receiving Kidney Dialysis while waiting for a transplant?

Will the new president deny life-saving technology to
all but the rich, well-connected and the politicians
who can afford to stay out of the Socialized medicine
the he wants everyone else to be forced to take?
Will you have to be a unionized, taxpaying Democrat to be able to get extraordinary treatment.
Don't laugh... There is plenty of room in the electronic medical database to enter a "c" or a "d"...

If you are over 50, will you be able to get a hip or knee replacement?

The modern medical system would not "kill" so many if it did not treat so many who are going to die anyway.
Instead of denying medical treatment to the elderly
why did the president say that he was not interested in Tort Reform to cut the cost of frivoloUs lawsuits
against doctors?

Another problem with GE being in charge of building and running the planned $6 Billion Medical Database
is that once these records are collected, they will never go away... What happens when another government gets in and decides to use the records to sort out the High Cost users and those with pre-existing health problems?
When money and profits are involved, what happens to
doctor-patient confidentiality?

Don't you love the "CHANGE" ?




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Re: Reality Check

Posted by Ron [3468.7650] on July 02, 2009 at 10:11:17:

In Reply to: Reality Check posted by samm [1003.2765] on July 01, 2009 at 11:32:12:

Hi Samm,

Have you noticed that since a skinny president got elected, there is a trend toward trying to enforce
Eating Habits and Execise? Maybe one day...
we will be told that we must have a Victory Garden
or be fined for the pollution we cause by that extra shopping trip..
Ooops!! Too late!! We will be fined anyway, through Cap and Tax legislation on Co2.




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Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness

Posted by Ron [3468.7650] on July 02, 2009 at 10:24:27:

In Reply to: Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness posted by k. [2065.7727] on June 30, 2009 at 16:51:40:

Hi K,

The president would not have a chance of the legislation being passed if he tried to push the
"Single Payer" part of the legislation...
There are too many political contributions from the
HMOs to loose and too many States with Senators who
would not get re-elected if the HMOs were to fail
and cause more unemployment.

The plan is to offer employers the Socialized Medicine
at a very competitive price and force the HMOs
out of business.
Government does not have to worry about making a profit, but HMOs do have to satisfy shareholders and the Pension Funds that are invested in them.

Over 80% of Americans with a healthcare plan are happy with it. It will cost $2 Trillion to bring another 16 million under government health care..
There will still be another 20 Million who are not
covered.
I heard that Walmart has just stated that they support government healthcare for their employees.
It must be their bottom line that is speaking.


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Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness

Posted by Ron [3468.7650] on July 02, 2009 at 10:38:26:

In Reply to: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.7756] on June 30, 2009 at 13:43:49:

Hi Jan,

I can see Disease Prevention
being touted, but what will that include?

-Forced Vaccination,
-Government legislation of preferred diets and foods.
-Encouraging more walking and bike riding through higher fuel prices.
-stigmatizing smoking and second hand smoke through
restrictive laws, taxes and fines.
-rationing health care so that the ill die before they are treated rather than after seeing a doc.
(that will improve that statistics.)
-taxing Co2 emissions as if they were a poison
-discouraging travel for all but the wealthy
-amending article 2 in the Constitution.

Wait until he he sees the death toll from all those
bicycles, scooters and Smart Cars!
(Maybe those stats will be hidden for our benefit to reduce anxiety.)
You say it can't be done?
You didn't think that the government would own two car companies and a dozen banks in the first six months either.




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Re: Reality Check

Posted by samm [1003.2765] on July 02, 2009 at 10:41:37:

In Reply to: Re: Reality Check posted by Ron [3468.7650] on July 02, 2009 at 10:11:17:

I'm not sure about this 'we'- aren't you canadian?

It gets to me, the talk of taxing industry, as if there were some different pocket the money comes out of-it all gets passed along to the consumer. You'll pay more for your steak when they make ranches pay for their cows' methane. I'll pay more for my electric bill and fueling my tank as other 'green' policies kick in. How will single moms and working families keep their kids warm in the winter? This magical thinking that there's some other pocket to take it out of is absurd. It's just a stealth tax increase and regressive at that.

Not sure what a thin prez has to do with it. The Bushes were relatively trim. Guess Bill Clinton has occasionally battled weight gain. There's a wonderful skit on the Phil Hartman SNL (saturday night live) dvd or video. He plays Bill Clinton explaining foreign aid while taking bites of everyone's food at a fast food restaurant. He comes off as sort of endearing. It's worth seeing.



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Re: Shifting America (these posts are Different)

Posted by Ron [3468.7650] on July 02, 2009 at 10:42:49:

In Reply to: Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness posted by Ron [3468.7650] on July 02, 2009 at 10:38:26:

it wasn't a double post


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Re: Reality Check

Posted by Ron [3468.7650] on July 02, 2009 at 11:01:54:

In Reply to: Re: Reality Check posted by samm [1003.2765] on July 02, 2009 at 10:41:37:

Hi Samm,

I hope you don't mind me saying "WE" when I should
be saying "you" It is just more politically
and socially correct to not be POINTING an accusatory finger at the "general YOU!!"
Do not forget that whatever happens in the US has a very big chance of being adopted in Kanada Komrade..
so saying WE is not a stretch.

Rememeber the old saying that "the most demanding
promoter of Anti Smoking is an Ex Smoker"

I also see a thin person as a very demanding
taskmaster when it comes to preaching about
diet choices.
Did he get that way through smoking, or is there
some other continuing recreational habit that keeps him as thin as Paris Hilton or (Michael Jackson)?
(Maybe it is all that $100 a pound Kobe Beef.)

You are right about there only being ONE taxpayer's pocket to take these costs out of...
He also said that 95% of the people would be getting
income tax decreases.. How very conservative that was of him during the campaigning.

He forgot to tell "YOU" about the higher fuel, gas,
and grocery prices and Carbon Tax that will cause
everything else to skyrocket in price.
The poor will be hardest hit because they spend most of their money on the basic necessities that will rise
in price.

A caring president would have approved Nuclear Power
Plants to generate all that power needed for Plug-in electric cars and told China to get their oil drilling rigs OUT of the Gulf Of Mexico.
If the US wanted to get off Arab Oil, all they need to do is drill their own wells in and around the the US coastal waters.



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Re: Reality Check

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [383.7756] on July 02, 2009 at 15:31:53:

In Reply to: Re: Reality Check posted by samm [1003.2765] on July 02, 2009 at 09:36:06:

Hi Samm,

Poptarts and pancakes..... I agree with you, truly clueless!

Best wishes,
Jan


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Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness

Posted by k. [2065.7727] on July 02, 2009 at 16:02:56:

In Reply to: Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness posted by Ron [3468.7650] on July 02, 2009 at 10:24:27:

Over 80% of Americans with a healthcare plan are happy with it.

NOT AT ALL, and Obama has admitted that we are unable to continue with the status quo. That's why he's working on a solution. Current plans are covering less and less, and costing more and more. Out of pocket expenses are becoming outrageous. You don't live in this country, so you can only speculate.




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A lot of waste in the system. example

Posted by AT [11797.4426] on July 02, 2009 at 20:31:32:

In Reply to: Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness posted by k. [2065.7727] on June 30, 2009 at 16:51:40:

I've told this before about a man who had a knee problem and they almost did an MRI but found he had shrapnel in his leg and couldn't. They sent him home and his knee problem resolved itself. Saved $1500 on the MRI.
Lady had shortness of breath and she's 75 years old. All in the same day, lab and blood tests, stress test, echocardiagram. What do they all cost? Result was she was anemic and so far she feels she took too many Aleve tablets that caused stomach bleeding. They also transfused her.
Also in the news yesterday that Tylenol has caused countless liver transplantations and deaths.
The system is hopeless.


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Re: A lot of waste in the system. example

Posted by k. [2065.7727] on July 02, 2009 at 23:52:05:

In Reply to: A lot of waste in the system. example posted by AT [11797.4426] on July 02, 2009 at 20:31:32:

Yes AT, that's exactly what Obama was saying, there is an incredible amount of waste in our system, and that's where he'll get some of the money from. We're shooting ourselves in the foot with that much waste, because when people really need the procedures, there won't be enough money for it.

And yes, that Tylenol scare is a perfect example of why I have heartily refused medication, any time I possibly could. The night I fell and broke my foot, the pain was excruciating. But when the paramedics put an icepack on my foot, the pain was very much alleviated, and at the hospital when they offered me morphine, I emphatically refused. I took nothing, not even a bufferin.

Right now I'm taking a baby aspirin daily because of an abnormal stress test, but hopefully that will be temporary.


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Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness

Posted by Hope [10020.7889] on July 03, 2009 at 02:00:45:

In Reply to: Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness posted by Ron [3468.7650] on July 02, 2009 at 10:24:27:

Happy with our healthcare? Yeah right!

My husband was having mild chest pains, went to the doctor, had a blood panel, and it costs us $300 with insurance. I called the insurance company and asked them why they did not cover it and they told me to take it up with the doctor...they cannot prove that he was having chest pains so we have to pay unless the doctor says differently...

Have you EVER sat at the Emergency Room in America? I have many nights in many cities either because I was sick, my husband was sick, or someone else in my family or a friend was sick. IT IS NOT FUN! On average it takes more than 5 hours to be seen. Once I was buckled over in horrible pain and the doctor wouldn't even see me for 6 hours! And I had wonderful insurance at the time...until my bill arrived of course!

The point is, if you have insurance the insurance company or hospital will find some way to screw you. If you do not have insurance you are just screwed!

If anyone can say that the system in the United States is awesome either they have never seen it in action or they have never been sick! Our system can only get better, it certainly cannot get worse!

Insurance companies are truly worthless, medical and personal property. Just ask the people in coastal areas. The insurance companies are skipping out on these people because there may be another hurricane. Isn't that why we pay year after year? It is so that we are taken care of WHEN WE NEED IT! You got one thing right, it is ALL about the bottom line for fat cat companies who are just in it for the loot.


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Re: A lot of waste in the system. example

Posted by AT [11797.4426] on July 03, 2009 at 12:35:43:

In Reply to: Re: A lot of waste in the system. example posted by k. [2065.7727] on July 02, 2009 at 23:52:05:

Sorry to hear about the stress test but hopefully just a passing thing.
I doubt that most people are like you, k. Usually they want service and to be taken care of. The lady I spoke about just follows like a little sheep with her doctor's suggestions. They are afraid to go against their doctors so, fear is another aspect. I feel these are unchangeable attitudes in our society at this point.


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Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness

Posted by Ron [3468.7650] on July 03, 2009 at 15:00:34:

In Reply to: Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness posted by Hope [10020.7889] on July 03, 2009 at 02:00:45:

Hi Hope,

"The point is, if you have insurance the insurance company or hospital will find some way to screw you. If you do not have insurance you are just screwed!
==============================
That is not what the Illegal immigrants are finding..
They show up at an emergency room and get treatment for free.
-------------

If anyone can say that the system in the United States is awesome either they have never seen it in action or they have never been sick! Our system can only get better, it certainly cannot get worse!

Insurance companies are truly worthless, medical and personal property. Just ask the people in coastal areas. The insurance companies are skipping out on these people because there may be another hurricane. Isn't that why we pay year after year? It is so that we are taken care of WHEN WE NEED IT! You got one thing right, it is ALL about the bottom line for fat cat companies who are just in it for the loot."
===================================

Welcome to Communism... It sounds like you
want to give it a try.

The American Dream consists of the right to become rich if you want to or remain poor if you decide to do nothing creative that makes money.

The US does 85% of of the Medical Research and the new discoveries save lives all around the world.
Who will pay for that if there is no profit
as a reward?

Hurricane Country is a bad area to live in if you need
medical services. Doctors don't want to live under those conditions.
There has to be a Country Club, Religious and
Arts facilities within a shore drive or they feel
under-served too.



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Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness

Posted by Ron [3468.7650] on July 03, 2009 at 15:07:38:

In Reply to: Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness posted by k. [2065.7727] on July 02, 2009 at 16:02:56:

Hi K,

I am not making up what I say...
it is quoted from reliable US sources with
nothing to gain except to preserve the freedoms
found in the US.

If I lived in the US I could get an MRI in a few days

If I wanted one here, I would wait months and then
probably receive a CAT Scan instead because it
was cheaper.. and I would not be able to get that without the referral from a family doc..

If I needed a knee replacement, the waiting list
is well over a year.


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Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness

Posted by VF [12036.2741] on July 03, 2009 at 16:02:49:

In Reply to: Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness posted by Ron [3468.7650] on July 03, 2009 at 15:00:34:

drugs aren't discovered by drug co's, but by researchers
working on grants from the NIH. Medical discoveries probably
come from universities searching for better ways or treatments,
and probably also funded my grants..


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Re: A lot of waste in the system. example

Posted by k. [2065.7727] on July 03, 2009 at 18:03:37:

In Reply to: Re: A lot of waste in the system. example posted by AT [11797.4426] on July 03, 2009 at 12:35:43:

Thanks for your concern AT. :o)

Yes, there is pressure from the doctors, and it's so awkward, because I don't want to alienate them or turn them off, otherwise they won't try and help me. However, it doesn't mean I want to needlessly dump toxins into my system either...


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Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness

Posted by k. [2065.7727] on July 03, 2009 at 18:33:09:

In Reply to: Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness posted by Ron [3468.7650] on July 03, 2009 at 15:07:38:

I am not making up what I say...
it is quoted from reliable US sources with
nothing to gain except to preserve the freedoms
found in the US.

Ron, I trust MY experiences, those of others LIVING here, our CURRENT president, and certain professionals, to ACCURATELY assess our conditions. Not the reliable sources you speak of, which may very well be funded by the medical and pharmaceutical establishments, and are heavily biased.

I respect YOUR experiences with your healthcare system, and I would never try and tell you how well it works, particularly when I don't even live there and am not in a position to experience it first hand.

Conservatives such as yourself never accept the fact that sometimes people need a helping hand. Not everyone who lost their job or is physically unable to work is a lazy bum. Healthcare should be a right, as it is in a number of countries. You can't see that because you have obviously been able to afford all your medical care, all your life. If something had changed in regards to YOUR circumstances, you'd probably be the first to scream and yell for help. Look at our senators who don't want national healthcare. Funny thing is, our government provides them with fabulous healthcare, and they wouldn't give it up nohow. Taking care of their own butts, that's what it's all about.

So, let's just agree to disagree, because I know we always will.


k.


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Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness

Posted by ad [12211.7737] on July 03, 2009 at 19:05:56:

In Reply to: Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness posted by k. [2065.7727] on July 02, 2009 at 16:02:56:

With no disrespect intended, you are living in a dream world if you think politicians are going to give you better and cheaper health care than you already have. The free market will always do everything better, faster and at less cost.

However, if you enjoy whining and complaining, socialized medicine will be right up your alley.

As P.J. O'Rourke said so eloquently a long time ago, "If you think health care is expensive now, just wait until it's free."



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Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness

Posted by Cruisin' [4789.7957] on July 13, 2009 at 19:10:02:

In Reply to: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.7756] on June 30, 2009 at 13:43:49:

If you believe the garbage being spewed from the mouths of those criminals in Washington, D.C. -- in BOTH parties -- then I have some Nevada swamp land to show you.

Oh yes, they will save money all right! They will save money by rendering substandard care and by RATIONING.

Anybody who thinks the fools in the damned government can do anything right must work for them (or has family members who do).


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Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness

Posted by k. [2065.7727] on July 13, 2009 at 19:28:30:

In Reply to: Re: Shifting America from Sick Care to Genuine Wellness posted by ad [12211.7737] on July 03, 2009 at 19:05:56:

you are living in a dream world if you think politicians are going to give you better and cheaper health care than you already have. The free market will always do everything better, faster and at less cost.

Perhaps you should ask some of the people in England and some other countries where nationalized healthcare is successful. I'm saying talk to a significant portion of the population, before you make your judgements.

However, if you enjoy whining and complaining, socialized medicine will be right up your alley

Hmmm, so you think that all the people in countries who enjoy nationalized healthcare are whiners and complainers? Again, talk to them and see how they feel.

With no disrespect intended...

Actually, that was hypocrytical on your part because I think you're very disrespectful. And now let me return the favor. I hope you loose your job, your home, your health, and then see how you feel, ad.




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