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Article - Organic Food No Healthier-- Bullony!

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Article - Organic Food No Healthier

Posted by John H [12294.8000] on July 29, 2009 at 19:17:39:

http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSTRE56S3ZJ20090729



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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier

Posted by ukchris [10820.8001] on July 29, 2009 at 20:49:58:

In Reply to: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by John H [12294.8000] on July 29, 2009 at 19:17:39:

It's the same study cited as Eric's earlier post.

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier

Posted by John [12294.8000] on July 29, 2009 at 21:27:53:

In Reply to: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by John H [12294.8000] on July 29, 2009 at 19:17:39:

I've been scooped!



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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier

Posted by ukchris [10820.8001] on July 29, 2009 at 21:39:27:

In Reply to: Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by John [12294.8000] on July 29, 2009 at 21:27:53:

Well I hadn't heard that term before!

Scooped: "The term is also used in the scientific community when a scientist or research group publishes their findings first. Being beat to the punch in this regard renders one group's work redundant, and is regarded as a very undesirable outcome (hence the title of Phdcomics book 'Scooped'), particularly since in some cases a single paper can include years of work and can qualify the scientists for competitive prizes."

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier

Posted by PhillyLady [5066.8002] on July 29, 2009 at 22:28:52:

In Reply to: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by John H [12294.8000] on July 29, 2009 at 19:17:39:

Bah! Not true! Stupid study! But I repeat myself.

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Hogwash!!

Posted by Lurch [140.7783] on July 30, 2009 at 06:21:11:

In Reply to: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by John H [12294.8000] on July 29, 2009 at 19:17:39:

I'm not even going to read it. Just another smear campaign. That's like saying we might as well plant crops at toxic waste dumps with genetically modified seeds that withstand chemicals.

It's sickening to think that anyone would fall for such a phony *study*.

I will continue to avoid commercial produce as much as possible.

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier

Posted by VF [12036.2741] on July 30, 2009 at 07:43:02:

In Reply to: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by John H [12294.8000] on July 29, 2009 at 19:17:39:

it might be that what is sold as organic, or free range,
or wild caught isn't the case. The rules aren't that strict,
and who is inspecting or testing the foods? All they
have to do is not use pesticides on the land for 3 yrs,
but do they? I don't think the rules are that strict, and
even Organic foods contain them, like wild caught
salmon can contain PCB's, and what about the farmed
salmon Sold As Wild Caught. In one investigation I saw
on TV, Half the wild caught salmon was farmed. They
can tell by the dye they are dfed. Farms that claim free
range, may offer animals like chickens access to
ground, but one show showed how they don't venture
out of the coops before they are slaughtered. I wonder
how many do what I saw one does, and have movable
cages they have about a dozen chickens in, and every
so often move the cage that is open on the bottom?
That would be a lotof work with thousands of chickens.
Wild caught salmon are said to be polluting the
streams where they spawn and die, and the bodies
decompose. Where are the PCB's coming from, and
where do they come from in farmed fish? From The
Water... Killer whales are said to be dieing off, and
PCB's are being found in their tissues, so sounds like
All fish would have them.

I don't eat what Anyone says I should But Me.. I'd be
mighty depressed if I ate something Thinking it was
beneficial, and paying more for it, and find out it was
no better or even worse than what I prefered. Tuna is
one that I had to laugh about. Now my prefered Chunk
Light is said to have 1/3 the mercury that the
Recomended albacore has, which I can't stand, and if I
didn't have a choice, wouldn't eat. To me albacore
tastes manufactured.

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier

Posted by PhillyLady [9150.8000] on July 30, 2009 at 10:02:26:

In Reply to: Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by VF [12036.2741] on July 30, 2009 at 07:43:02:

Vince:

If a farmer violates the USDA rules of organic farming, does that make all organic produce suspicious? NO, it does not. It just means that the farmer broke the law.

One person, or even several persons, committing fraud does not mean that everything else is fraudulent.

And the reason albacore tuna was recommended wasn't for its lack of mercury content. It was for its lack of "fat" content. It was thought to be low-fat.



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Re: Hogwash!!

Posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.8002] on July 30, 2009 at 10:05:21:

In Reply to: Hogwash!! posted by Lurch [140.7783] on July 30, 2009 at 06:21:11:

I agree Lurch.

I think organic food is much better than the ordinary produce. I also think eating ordinary produce is much better than not eating veggies at all. One must be able to afford the organic stuff, though.

Best wishes,
Jan

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier

Posted by Charles [448.2996] on July 30, 2009 at 10:24:47:

In Reply to: Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by PhillyLady [9150.8000] on July 30, 2009 at 10:02:26:

I really doubt if you have ever shoveled manure out a barn, I'd much rather have food grown on fertilizer.

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier

Posted by PhillyLady [9150.8000] on July 30, 2009 at 10:41:28:

In Reply to: Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by Charles [448.2996] on July 30, 2009 at 10:24:47:

Charles:

I never had the pleasure of shoveling manure. But I understand manure is a good thing...been in use for thousands of years.

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier

Posted by AT [11797.4426] on July 30, 2009 at 10:57:35:

In Reply to: Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by PhillyLady [9150.8000] on July 30, 2009 at 10:41:28:

I've shoveled composted horse manure. By then it's lost it's aroma and is great stuff. Sometimes farmers don't wait with the fresh stuff but they plow it right in the soil before planting after a period of waiting.

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier

Posted by Nutmeg [4785.7726] on July 30, 2009 at 11:07:14:

In Reply to: Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by VF [12036.2741] on July 30, 2009 at 07:43:02:

Farmers pay a lot of money for the organic certification, and they are required to be inspected, show logs, prove that their methods are appropriate for organic, etc. Many start off with virgin ground, so they don't have to wait the 3 years in transition to certified organic. If they are certified organic, then they get a much better price for their crop on their contracts. It is big business for large and small growers. Many also produce organically, or nearly organic, but can't afford the certification. Organic production is very labor-intensive, with crops being hand-tended.

Many additional certifications are by a third party, like Oregon Tilth, and other organizations for sustainability, biodynamics, and social justice, not just the government inspections.

In our area, anyway, the organic farmers do want to maintain their certifications so they can protect their investment, and wish to avoid the repercussions of not following the rules or claiming their crops are organic when they are not. A lot of them are family farms trying to hold out against big agribusiness.

Of course there are always unscrupulous people, so things can happen. Regulations have been weakened over the years, so organic crops are not as clean as they once were. And many organic crops are grown in Mexico and other countries where the oversight is not so strict.

Nutmeg

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier

Posted by Charles [448.2996] on July 30, 2009 at 12:08:53:

In Reply to: Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by PhillyLady [9150.8000] on July 30, 2009 at 10:41:28:

Horses, mules and oxens have been in use for a long time also but we don't use them anymore, do we?

There wouldn't be enough manure to raise enough food to even begin to feed the people on this planet.

The cost of food would be so high people couldn't afford it if it weren't for the use of pesticides.

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier

Posted by ukchris [10820.8001] on July 30, 2009 at 12:23:27:

In Reply to: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by John H [12294.8000] on July 29, 2009 at 19:17:39:

No one's mentioned taste. Organic tastes better. On the other hand, in a world where people are dying of starvation already, organic food is a luxury that the world can't afford to everyone.

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier

Posted by ukchris [10820.8001] on July 30, 2009 at 12:26:52:

In Reply to: Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by Charles [448.2996] on July 30, 2009 at 12:08:53:

So true Charles. This is a point many people do not know or forget; the conventional method of growing food has fed many mouths that would otherwise have starved, or simply never existed. The world's population has outgrown "traditional" farming methods.

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier

Posted by Charles [448.2996] on July 30, 2009 at 12:42:06:

In Reply to: Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by PhillyLady [9150.8000] on July 30, 2009 at 10:41:28:

"I never had the pleasure of shoveling manure."

Neither have I, there isn't any in it. :)

You think it might turn into oil if it were left there a few thousand years? :)

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier--I beg to differ.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on July 30, 2009 at 13:20:43:

In Reply to: Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by Charles [448.2996] on July 30, 2009 at 10:24:47:

Sorry Charles,

I have to disagree with you here. I have shoveled more shit than you can imagine for the 20 years I grew up on the farm. I would MUCH rather eat what is grown with manure than chemical fertilizers.

Walt

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier

Posted by VF [12036.2741] on July 30, 2009 at 13:50:53:

In Reply to: Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by PhillyLady [9150.8000] on July 30, 2009 at 10:41:28:

they say we're getting it now, But Phillyorganic.((

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier

Posted by John H [4290.5847] on July 30, 2009 at 13:51:04:

In Reply to: Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by ukchris [10820.8001] on July 29, 2009 at 21:39:27:

We use it over here in terms of journalists beating another newsies to the punch with a story. I was just being silly.

I have to think organics still have some benefit. I will have to read thru what you guys have posted.

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Re: Hogwash!!

Posted by John H [4290.5847] on July 30, 2009 at 13:56:47:

In Reply to: Re: Hogwash!! posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.8002] on July 30, 2009 at 10:05:21:

I agree w/both of you. I just wanted to post the article to get some opinions from this board. I still spend lots of dough at Whole Foods (Whole Paycheck is what we call it here)because i think it's worth it.



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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier

Posted by VF [12036.2741] on July 30, 2009 at 14:03:22:

In Reply to: Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by PhillyLady [9150.8000] on July 30, 2009 at 10:02:26:

When Consumers tested foods for pesticides, 70% of
normal foods had some, and 25% of organics did, and
Both had one sample that exceded FDA limits. I
remember chunk light tuna was said to have more
Toxins, because it had more fat. Guess mercury wasn't
considered a toxin.

A frioend came in the diner last night, who works at
the food distribution ctr, and handed out bags of
cherries to the few people there. I took one, though I
am Not a fruit eater, and ate a few.. My friend who lives
in CA and grows a lot of his own food, would probably
be raving about ones if he grew them, since her raves
about everything he grows, but these are OK, and OK.
I wonder if my friend just raves about things, and I
would just say, they're OK. My friend raves about
everything he eats, and unless he is delusional, eats
enough for 5 people, and says he Loves to eat.. I'll Try
to eat the cherries Not to be wasteful, but usually when
I buy fresh produce, I eat one and the rest rots.. I eat
what I like, not what someone says I should. What is it,
5 servings of fruits and veggies/day now. I Don't eat 5/
yr, like I Don't drink 8 glases of water/yr. Don't like it,
even the stuff from Kilimanjaro.((

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Re: Hogwash!!

Posted by ukchris [10820.8001] on July 30, 2009 at 14:08:43:

In Reply to: Re: Hogwash!! posted by John H [4290.5847] on July 30, 2009 at 13:56:47:

LOL @ whole paycheck. Least you have a whole foods store, we only have small sections of what are considered "niche" foods. Funny that it's the only stuff in the store great grandma would recognise as actual food.

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Re: Hogwash!!

Posted by VF [12036.2741] on July 30, 2009 at 14:21:52:

In Reply to: Re: Hogwash!! posted by ukchris [10820.8001] on July 30, 2009 at 14:08:43:

My grandfather who lived to a ripe OLD age didn't
seem to have a problem recognizing food.)) He never
seemed to worry about what he ate. Only thing i
remember was, he used to buy cheese from a local
cheese shop that made their own. Some of them used
to taste different that most that are packaged, at least
the mozerrela did, but that had a knob on it and was
hung up. Very few packaged ones taste the same, and I
wonder if there is a difference in the culture that they
are made from? I like the ones that taste like what he
used to buy, maybe because it is familiar, and I always
liked it. The price of cheses from the store are 2-3X
what packaged ones are, and only bought on holidays,
just like the Panetone, that wasis a holiday item. As
much as I like it, 6$/lb for a rasin bread that looks like a
huge cupcake is a bit much to spend for every day.
Tried to make it, but it isn't easy, and it Didn't rise till I
found a recipe that used yeast And baking powder

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier

Posted by VF [12036.2741] on July 30, 2009 at 14:33:15:

In Reply to: Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by Nutmeg [4785.7726] on July 30, 2009 at 11:07:14:

I wonder if any organics come from China? If so, all
bets are off. They can't even get pet and baby food
right. The penalties are severe, execution, but it does
happen.

In motor oils there is a lot of question whether what is
Called Synthetic is actually manufactured oil from
ingredients, or just highly refined mineral oil that is
gotten from the ground. Mobil oil sued Castrol,
because they were calling their highly refined mineral
oil, synthetic. Mo lost, and changed Their formulation,
and except for a few small producers, most of the
synthetic today is the Croup III mineral oil. Better but
not mfg'd. Unless I was sure something is what it is
claimed, i can't see paying a premium.. I started using
the Group III motor oil on a new car, Because I can get
it on sale for the price of regular oil, and being more
refined, and the number of miles I put on the new car,
am going to use what I drain from the new one, in an
old car, because it should be as good as the reg stuff
in it, and cut the costs even more.

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier

Posted by VF [12036.2741] on July 30, 2009 at 14:40:07:

In Reply to: Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by PhillyLady [9150.8000] on July 30, 2009 at 10:02:26:

if 25% of organics tested had pesticide residues, that
is a lot more than one, and to have enough to excede
FDA limits, that is a LOT. Like half the wild caught
salmon in NY had the red dye farmed salmon are fed in
it, but sold as wild caught, can we be sure of anything?
Like they say about imported foods, they Can't test
everone. Rules can be misleading. A mfg doesn't have
to list what is in a food if an ingredient they put in had
something they don't claim is or isn't in their product.
As long as They didn't put it in the final product.

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Re: Hogwash!!

Posted by ukchris [10820.8001] on July 30, 2009 at 14:55:33:

In Reply to: Re: Hogwash!! posted by VF [12036.2741] on July 30, 2009 at 14:21:52:

Vince, I just finished reading a book by Stephen Fry, describing his tour of America's states. He claims the only "real" cheese he encountered was in Seattle, Washington, at the Pike Place Market.

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier

Posted by VF [12036.2741] on July 30, 2009 at 15:09:58:

In Reply to: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by John H [12294.8000] on July 29, 2009 at 19:17:39:

I worry more about motor oil for my car than the foods I
eat. Maybe because I can taste the foods and feel how
they affect me. With the oil, I have to learn what is in it,
and what it can do. I can see some effects of the oil,
but not all. Maybe if the car could talk, like Mr Ed the
talking horse, i would ask how the oil tasted, and how it
felt.)) I have always let my Taste Buds and how I felt
decide what I wanted, no matter what I heard or was
told. That is the only thing I can be sure of. As a kid I
drank milk instead of water, and though I don't like milk
anymore, I Still don't like water. I am Supposed to be
DEhydrated like a mummy according to some, but don't
seem to be. my skin is supposed to be dry and wrinkly,
but it isn't, I'm supposed to have all kinds of problems,
but don't think I have the ones associated with too little
water, and I sweat just standing in the sun, and do
anything physical, and I am soaked.. I think it's genetic
because my dad was the same way, and he drank his 8
glases/day or more, and ate all the fruits and veggies
They said to do now. he used to make Fruit
sandwiches. Started as a joke, and then he liked them..
he was More regular than I, having to GO after Every
meal, while i go once a day. I have a friend who eats
like he does and claims he goes 8X/day, but he says he
eats a TON of food

I drink When I am thirsty, and don't buy that we are
Already dehydrated to a fault when we get thirsty. That
would mean that every animal except fish are
dehydrated when they get thirsty. I drink more in the
summer than in the winter which makes sense to me.
My mom used to say, she would gag on the 3rd glass/
day, She also used to say, she could only drink One
cup of coffee in the AM. her coffe was SO strong, I
used to have to cut it with a lot of milk, and doubt
mmany people could drink more than one of hers. My
mom asked me if I ate bananas, and I told her no. They
started to make me feel bloated many yrs ago, unless
baked in a pie. Figured something in them or they
didn't agree. She ate a Half of one/day. I never asked
her why only half. probably bloated her also, BUT she
was going to get her potassium. odd that Dr's put her
on potassium pills, and she said they came out as they
went in, so wasn't getting any from them. I like
potatoes, and laughed when I heard they have 2X the
potassium of a banan. Told a friend about eating
potatoes the other night and He Said potatoes have "0"
nutrition. they are White, and Noting white has any
nutrients. Him and his wife are health food nuts. i told
him he better check and find out the source of the
belief.

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Re: Hogwash!!

Posted by VF [12036.2741] on July 30, 2009 at 15:14:24:

In Reply to: Re: Hogwash!! posted by ukchris [10820.8001] on July 30, 2009 at 14:55:33:

what is real cheese? Aren't they all made from milk and
a culture? I don't like low fat cheeses. To me they aren't
real. I eat less whole milk cheese to try to lessen the
fats, but Only because i don't think I need the calories,
or can burn the fats like I used to, or need them with my
more limited activities, BUT I have a little every day, like
I do a little butter. It just feels right to me. I used to
snack on a little cheese and pepperoni when making
meals when I made my own. Gave a little to my hounds
als and they appreciated it.))

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on July 30, 2009 at 15:29:20:

In Reply to: Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by VF [12036.2741] on July 30, 2009 at 15:09:58:

VF,

Thanks.

Did you tell your friend that white potatoes are whole if they are not peeled and the peeling is eaten?

Walt

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier -- How about taste testing? Archive.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on July 30, 2009 at 15:31:37:

In Reply to: Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by VF [12036.2741] on July 30, 2009 at 15:09:58:

VF,

Thanks.

Did you tell your friend that white potatoes are whole if they are not peeled and the peeling is eaten?

By the way, I eat organic when I can because it tastes better. Our smeller and our taster are still more sensitive than many of the laboratory tests they have devised.

Walt

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier -- How about taste testing? Archive.

Posted by VF [12036.2741] on July 30, 2009 at 15:51:24:

In Reply to: Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier -- How about taste testing? Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on July 30, 2009 at 15:31:37:

Walt, I didn't get a chance to say much to my friend, he
flored me when he said cheese also had no nutrients,
because it was white. We were eating in a thai
restaurant, and he was commenting on the variety of
veggies and seafood in a soup he ordere. It was
almost gaging me, having a strong smell. I tasted some
to see what he was raving about. It was pretty
distasteful to me, but I prefer things like the rice and
duck I had, that he said wasn't very nutritous, and the
rice was white.. It had a few veggies, that weren't to my
liking.

The friend thinks he knows nutrition, and talks abiout
following a Dr Furhman. I was surprized when he said
thet vit K Regulates blood clotting. I just know it
Increases it, when needed. the things my friend eats, I
wouldn't eat unless i had to. I tried some Hamas he
had, and couldn't even swallow it. I think the vinegar
repelled me. I can't handle anything with vinegar now,
but him and his wife Love it. My friend loves raw nuts,
when I think they taste terrible.. My sister said, the only
raw nuts she liked were cashews. I never had them so
maybe I might like them, since we seem to like the same
things. Sis drinks water like I do, but can't stand fish. I
think she was attacked by liquid cod liver oil when
young, before I came along. She Hatred the vit A & D
pills that were sweeter than candy, and dad had to wrap
a stick of gum around them to make them a chewable. i
took the gum off and saved it for later and Chewed the
pills, they were SO sweet.. I don't mind fish, but it isn't
my first choice of food. It doesn't fuel me like other
foods do.

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Re: Hogwash!!

Posted by ukchris [1490.7642] on July 30, 2009 at 16:00:33:

In Reply to: Re: Hogwash!! posted by VF [12036.2741] on July 30, 2009 at 15:14:24:

I think the secret's in the making - processed cheese versus cheese that has been traditionally made with cultural recipes. Dairylea is not real cheese; stilton, brie, edam are.


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Re: Hogwash!!

Posted by VF [12036.2741] on July 30, 2009 at 16:50:53:

In Reply to: Re: Hogwash!! posted by ukchris [1490.7642] on July 30, 2009 at 16:00:33:

that's a LOT of cheeses!!!

I eat a variety daily. If I don't have one I miss it. I eat
mozerella, cheddar, swiss, and munster, and think they
are all real. I don't consider American or Phila Brand
cream cheese, or anything I can spread to be real
cheese. Here someone started putting Cheese Wiz, a
liquid like Velvetta on cheese steaks, and some people
prefer it. Maybe because it has a cheddar like taste,
but barely.

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier -- How about taste testing? Archive.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on July 30, 2009 at 17:24:45:

In Reply to: Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier -- How about taste testing? Archive. posted by VF [12036.2741] on July 30, 2009 at 15:51:24:

VF,

Your friend is so simplistic he is funny. The white thing is just a guideline. Obviously, there are many whole foods that are white. If he wants to be simplistic, so he doesn't have to think, remember: "Survival of the fittest!"

Walt

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier -- How about taste testing? Archive.

Posted by VF [12036.2741] on July 30, 2009 at 18:15:03:

In Reply to: Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier -- How about taste testing? Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on July 30, 2009 at 17:24:45:

Walt, a lot of my friend have had brain damage, maybe
because i met them through support groups, or can
sympathize, because I had some.. I usually don't try to
correct them if they believe something strongly, uless
they are way off base, or could do harm. I only shower
about once a week, because it is difficult mentally and
physically, and takes a lot to get me started, but telling
a friend who grew up on a tobacco farm in TN, and now
lives in CA, he thinks it is the worst thing to do for the
skin. he told me as a kid, the tar from the tobacco
plants would get so heavy on his jeans, he could stand
them up. he believes that soap is bad, though thought I
should buy home made soap on line.. I feel like I am
watching Dr Strangelove with the Precious Bodily
Fluids the commander who sent out the SAC bomers,
to protect when he tells me I am doing harm to my skin.
It has been 100+ where he lives, and when he rolled
obver in dog doo when working on his pool, and his
wife chased him out of the hose when she saw or
smelled it, he said, he put the jeanes on the roof to
Bake the doo. wasn't going to wash Aged jeans.LOL..
The guy sounds pretty normal other times, but has a
thing about being identified in public, and Says he
wears a 10gal hat, mirrored sunglases, a fake beard,
and a rain coat when out. In 100^+ temps he must look
aand smell a sight. He said he splashed on
calogne..LOL so not worried about BO. I'm Glad we are
Just E friends.. he grows his own veggies and fruits,
and says he uses manure. I wonder if he splashes
some on for fragrance.)). he says, his wife doesn't
understand. her dad was a cowboy, so maybe she
accepts the odors..sometimes.))

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Re: Hogwash!!

Posted by ukchris [1490.7642] on July 30, 2009 at 19:08:28:

In Reply to: Re: Hogwash!! posted by VF [12036.2741] on July 30, 2009 at 16:50:53:

I love cheese, but just as with meat I have ethical concerns that I struggle with. I don't drink milk because I dislike the idea of drinking the bodily secretions of another animal. For some reason, probably part convenience, part taste, I can ignore the fact cheese is made from milk, admittedly contradictory though that is. My ethical concerns with dairy/eggs are because I think the animals suffer. In terms of milk, they're often intensively farmed and live short lives, with little or no access to the outdoors. They're kept constantly pregnant and their calves are killed for human consumption. It's grotesque and should disturb any compassionate human. There are cruelties involved in producing eggs too. I personally think we'll look back at animal enslavement for human purposes as very backwards one day: "speciesism". Perhaps it will take another 100 years.

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Re: Hogwash!!

Posted by VF [12036.2741] on July 30, 2009 at 20:46:53:

In Reply to: Re: Hogwash!! posted by ukchris [1490.7642] on July 30, 2009 at 19:08:28:

I guess it depends if you feel like a hunter/gatherer, or
a farmer.)) There are predators and grazers. I must
feel like a hunter, since I am not that big on veggies. If I
had to, I think I could hunt to survive, but then I'd be
using hounds and letting them catch the food, and
marvel at their abilities. I am aways surprized at a guy
who spent 35yrs living off the land and hynting in
Alaska, who thought wolves were wanton killers, when
he saw a dead animal they killed that they didn't eat. In
the Show with fottage he filmed, they show the kill, and
many other animals feeding on it, whjo wouldn't have
been able to bring down the animal, so the wolves
supplied for others besides themselves, and if times
were lean, might have that kill to feed on later. It was
winter so it would stay frozen, but they seem to be able
to tolerate Aged meat anyway.

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier--I beg to differ.

Posted by Charles [448.2996] on July 31, 2009 at 06:31:54:

In Reply to: Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier--I beg to differ. posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on July 30, 2009 at 13:20:43:

I never was a big fan of standing knee deep in manure. You had to shovel it in the wagon and then shovel it out.

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier -- How about taste testing? Archive.

Posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on July 31, 2009 at 06:48:56:

In Reply to: Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier -- How about taste testing? Archive. posted by VF [12036.2741] on July 30, 2009 at 18:15:03:

Thanks, VF.

For my first grin of the day. I guess it takes all kinds.

Walt

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Re: Hogwash!!

Posted by Lurch [140.7783] on July 31, 2009 at 07:49:59:

In Reply to: Re: Hogwash!! posted by Jan DeCourtney, CMT (Happygal) [7244.8002] on July 30, 2009 at 10:05:21:

Hi.

One must be able to afford the organic stuff, though.

Organic doesn't often cost me more than commercial would here, at least for the type of stuff I eat. Kroger's has a lot of organic that's very reasonably priced :

apples, often about $.99 / pound
bananas $.59 / lb
carrots $3.50 to $4.50 /5 lbs.

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Interesting take on this "study"

Posted by Vitamin Z [10386.7756] on July 31, 2009 at 08:49:20:

In Reply to: Article - Organic Food No Healthier posted by John H [12294.8000] on July 29, 2009 at 19:17:39:

Actually it's not a study but a meta-analysis...there is a difference. But I digress.


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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier -- How about taste testing? Archive.

Posted by VF [12036.2741] on July 31, 2009 at 11:03:06:

In Reply to: Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier -- How about taste testing? Archive. posted by Walt Stoll [93.7902] on July 31, 2009 at 06:48:56:

Walt, the friend got brain damage from an
unprogramed morphine pump after back surgery
dumping the whole load into him, and he had seisures
after. My other friend who said white equals "0"
nutrition said he had grand mal seisures as a kid, so
maybe his wiring is a bit messed up also. My friend
who wants to preserve his prescios bodily fluids said,
He had problems at an ATM and when a store clerk
came to help him, he kept pulling his hat down over his
face so she wouldn't get a good look at him.. He said
when the armored truck pulled up to service the
machine, he was getting a Lot of looks from them.) He
had a problem with strangers recognizing him, and
said his wife got him to go to a restaurant, and he must
not have been in his getup, because he said, She had
No respect for his feelings, and when waiting in the car
for ger to pick up dog food, he hid behind the foil
windsheild sun screen. I imaging he is really troubled
by being recognized by Strangers, but try to tell him,
they wouldn't know who he was, so no big deal, but
with his getup, he must draw a LOT of attention.

His FIL recently died, and being a cowboy, he
inherited a bunch of 10gal hats, a saddle and a bunch
of spurs, and a pair of expensive silver ones. He said
his wife is a compulsive buyer and has the house filled
with shopping bags. He built a computer room in the
garage, and said he drew a line at the doorway, and
nothing was going to be put in there, he calls it his
Command Post. Whgen things started to get moved in,
he built an addition to the house. he calls his wife X,
and thinks she is fooling around which he said is fine,
so he doesn't have to perform. When his FIL died, he
became Z, and his SIL became Y. His FIL's GF became
W, and the dog they got for his FIL before he died
became V. It got confusing at first becaue I used to ne
V.. With his FIL in and out of a hospital, hospice, and
nursing home before he died, and the dog being
shuffled around, and his SIL causing problems, and his
FIL's GF coming to stay on weekends, it was an
alphabet soup.))

I live in Phila, and the friend is fascinated by Ben
Franklin and the revolution, and claimed that ben took
Air Baths where he walked around naked. I thought he
was kidding, till he sent me a link on the info. Recently
he decided to make whiskey, and bought a still on
Ebay from a seller in Valley Forge that was the sellers
grandfathers. My friend had His grandfathers recipe
for making whiskey. He bought oak barrels on Ebay
from mexico where they laser etch your logo on the
ends, so he is all set../ When he was having a problem
with the seller of the still not getting back to him, I told
me to find out where he lived and i would go Lean on
him, only being 20mi away.))

The guy IS interesting, and sent me pics of his garden
that is loaded with fruit trees, veggies, and even
bababa trees, and looks like a jungle. With 100+^ heat,
he said he has to water it every few hrs. Him and his
wife are nuddists, and he said he hangs out in his yard
naked and they swim in the nude in the pool.. Every day
is a story and adventure.))

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Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier--I beg to differ.

Posted by VF [12036.2741] on July 31, 2009 at 11:27:30:

In Reply to: Re: Article - Organic Food No Healthier--I beg to differ. posted by Charles [448.2996] on July 31, 2009 at 06:31:54:

if you don't Feed the animals, You don't have to shovel
manure.)) I like watching Mr Ed on TV. They never talk
about manure. He is SO well trained, he probably uses
a bathroom.))

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PS -------------->

Posted by Lurch [140.7783] on July 31, 2009 at 17:18:38:

In Reply to: Re: Hogwash!! posted by Lurch [140.7783] on July 31, 2009 at 07:49:59:

Also Organic :

Celery : $1.99 / bunch
Brocolli : $3 ea
Plums : 1.99/lb
Spinach : 1.99 / bunch
Valencia Oranges : 2 / $1

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